PA Bill Number: HB1661
Title: Further providing for schedules of controlled substances; and providing for secure storage of xylazine.
Description: Further providing for schedules of controlled substances; and providing for secure storage of xylazine. ...
Last Action: Act No. 17 of 2024
Last Action Date: May 15, 2024
PA open-carry handgun rules: 'We have created a minefield of regulations,' advocate says :: 03/11/2015
In Pennsylvania, gun owners can walk down any street with a gun on their hip in plain view. It's called "open carrying." And outside Philadelphia, they don't need a license to do it.
But set foot in a car, and the rules change.
Gun owners better know the law, or they could lose their gun rights altogether and risk possible jail time as well.
"We have created a minefield of regulations that confuse a lot of people," said Kim Stolfer of Allegheny County, who is president of the advocacy group Firearms Owners Against Crime.
"If you don't know what you're doing, you could end up with a life-changing result," Stolfer said. "You could lose the right to own a gun ever again."
(RELATED: Proposed law seeks to clarify rules)
Lancaster County has around 35,000 residents with permits to carry concealed firearms. The state has around 870,000.
There is no way to know how many people exclusively practice open carry.
Two recent shooting incidents involving guns and vehicles in Lancaster County sparked debates on LancasterOnline's site about what's allowed and what isn't when it comes to practicing open carry.
A tale of two shootings
On Feb. 3, Ashley Curry, 31, of Columbia, got into an argument with another woman in the parking lot of a Columbia shopping center.
Roland survived, and Curry was charged with ethnic intimidation, aggravated assault and related offenses.
She was not charged, however, with a violation of Pennsylvania's Uniform Firearms Act — the state's overriding list of gun laws.
That's because, "She had a valid license to carry a firearm," Columbia police Chief Jack Brommer said.
On Feb. 17, Randy Shreiner, 58, of West Lampeter Township, legally bought a handgun at a local gun shop.
The next day, police allege he used that handgun to shoot and kill Monica Miller outside the Ephrata apartment building where she lived.
Shreiner turned himself in to two state troopers, who were behind his car early on the morning of Feb. 19.
Those officers recovered a loaded handgun from Shreiner's car.
Shreiner was charged with homicide and with violating the Uniform Firearms Act.
Lancaster County District Attorney Craig Stedman said the latter charge was because Shreiner did not have a license to carry a concealed weapon, which he would have needed to have a loaded handgun in his car.
Open carry and cars
It was suggested in a post on LancasterOnline that Shreiner could have been practicing his open-carry rights when he was in his car, and therefore wouldn't have needed the license to carry.
Placing the gun on a dashboard in plain view might qualify as carrying the gun in the open, while inside a car, a reader wrote.
"Please don't ever do that," Stolfer said, when told of that suggestion. "That will almost certainly land you in jail."
Displaying a gun in such a manner, Stolfer said, could be viewed by police as an "intimation of deadly force," he said.
Various charges could follow.
Joshua Prince is an attorney from Berks County who specializes in firearms law.
He's the attorney who requested the names of people donating to the legal defense fund set up to fight the National Rifle Association's lawsuit against Lancaster city.
The NRA is suing Lancaster over its ordinance requiring gun owners to report lost or stolen guns within 72 hours.
Prince believes the ordinance is illegal.
According to Prince, Pennsylvania law includes 16 narrow exceptions that allow someone to have a handgun in a car without a license to carry.
Several pertain to police, security and government workers and gun dealers.
The rest present very specific incidences. And in all of them, the gun cannot be loaded.
"In Pennsylvania, to carry a loaded handgun concealed or in any mode of conveyance — car, bicycle, tractor, etc. — even if it is on your own property, an individual must obtain a license to carry firearms," Prince said.
Exceptions which would allow a gun owner in the general public to have unloaded handguns in a car without a license to carry include going to and from a target range, gun shop or the owner's place of business or second home.
There's also an exception for gun owners going hunting, fishing or dog training. But to qualify for those variances, the gun owner must have a "Sportsman's Firearms Permit," issued by the County Treasurer's Office.
Clash with open carry
Stolfer doesn't think the state's open-carry rules should end at the car door.
He thinks traveling by automobile is as much a right as carrying a gun.
"Why do I all of a sudden need a piece of paper, just because I get into my car to go somewhere?" he said.
Shira Goodman, executive director of CeaseFirePA, sees the permit to carry as a critical check in the system.
"We don't require a lot to buy guns in this state," she said. "Having to get a license to carry is a layer of scrutiny."
According to its website, "CeaseFirePA is a statewide coalition...working together to take a stand against gun violence."
State Rep. Bryan Cutler of Peach Bottom agrees the vehicle rules clash with the open-carry rules.
And he said he gets a lot of questions about what's allowed.
"All the time," he said. "People think if they practice open carry without a permit, that means they can go anywhere. It doesn't."
Getting caught with a gun in a vehicle without a license to carry is a first-degree misdemeanor — assuming the gun owner is legally allowed to own a gun. It carries a maximum penalty of up to five years in prison.
Anything with a maximum penalty over two years triggers a federal prohibition on gun ownership.
And that sticks for the rest of your life.
"It is possible to think you're doing nothing wrong, and you could end up losing your gun rights," Cutler said.
Stedman, Lancaster County's district attorney, said he doesn't know how often that has happened here.
"I can tell you it would not be very many," he said. "That, I know."
